I am trying out the hotel wakeup calls application and the install went fine. I was the told to access operator mode which is supposed to be specific to each extension. Can anyone tell me how to do this?
Whatever that is, it’s not a part of FreePBX so it might be a good idea to post a link to it so that if someone wants to help you, they at least know what application you’re talking about!
(By the way, my suspicion is they are referring to an option in the VMX Locator but I really can’t assume that, given that I’m unfamiliar with that application).
On February 18th, 2009 tshif (tadpole) said:
Simple Hotel Style Wake Up Calls: THE MODULE
I am pleased to release today for general use the completed FreePBX Module for Hotel Style Wake Up Calls.
Please see this thread for details: http://pbxinaflash.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3491
You should be at the PIAF forum.
Better yet would be to finish it up as a FreePBX module and get it posted into the FreePBX third party modules section on this site. That way all FreePBX based platforms can use it from a common central point.
but can I can verify that with extremely limited testing and a review of the instructions on the PIAF forums (thanks Bubba), it worked for me as is.
Wiseoldowl -
I am not sure what the deal is with tshif, he has been spamming every thread in the trixbox forum with the word ‘wakeup’ or ‘hotel’ with a link to the module at a third party web site.
I wanted to have a good look at the code to see if there is something in there that should not be, I have never seen a developed push an app so hard.
The author need to publish it properly to the contributed module repository.
I believe that in one of the early posts regarding wakeup calls (i think on the PIAF) forums, Philippe was involved in the dialogue. Let me know if I can do anything to provide you with the code/information that you’re looking for.
SkykingOH, I agree. And if this is the original Wakeup thing that appeared on the Nerd Vittles site eons ago, I hope that someone has cleaned it up because it sure didn’t work very well (or reliably) in its earlier incarnation, at least not on our system. It did some things we didn’t want (asking you to answer a stupid math question after you answered, with no way given to turn that off) and it made you input the time in a certain format, and then once done you had no guarantee it would actually call you at the specified time… most of the time it did, but maybe one out of every five times it wouldn’t. Whatever code is in these modules, I really hope it’s not that code unless someone has taken the time to clean it up and test it a bit.
Well - we do seems to have some armchair quarterbacking going on - let me try and answer any actual questions here, and address some of the background noise as well. Some of you asked some hard questions, or made some harsh statements, so don’t be overly surprised when I respond in kind, ok? I just love a good debate. 
macklincj - Im really not sure what your questions is. Once you have installed the module, the user interface has lots of written text, explaining how to use the settings. The article you refer to has even MORE information about how to use the module. Did yo READ any of it? Please rephrase your question - and Ill be reall happy to try and answer it. Also, with regard to the WakeUp Calls modules in the third party repository that you mentioned - dont do it! It crashes systems, and truly doesnt work. In fact, that expereince is what led me to want to release a proper, full module version of the Wake Up Call function.
bubba - I cant tell for sure, but it seems you are one of the few here who actually looked at the module before whipping yourself into some sort of frenzy about where it is hosted. Thanks - for looking before increasing the background noise here in the forum.
fskrotzki, SkykingOH - There are a number of reasons I chose not to store this module in the FreePBX third party repository. Chief among them is that the large majority of those modules either don’t work at all, or even crash systems when installed. Since the Hotel Wake Up Calls module DOES work, and DOES NOT crash systems, I decided that’s not the kind of company I wanted to keep. When the repository gets some attention, gets cleaned up and becomes safe for folks to use again, Ill consider moving the module there.
Of course, that means nothing to how the module gets installed, configured, or performs its functions. A module is a module, regardless of where its stored before you download it. Right?
SkykingOH - Again, sorry NO, it wont be published in the third party repository. See above. With regards to “spamming” the forums. I suppose a paticularly craven viewpoint might see it that way. The fact (if they matter) is that there were some 10 or so threads, dating back as far as 2007, asking for a solution to having Wake Up Calls function that were largely unanswered or dead ended. It seemed prudent to provide the solution to every thread that had asked for it. As far as providing a link to “a third party web site” - well - you got me. I failed your purity test I guess. Its another forum - not a commercial site in any way - it’s where the complete write up was published. Your viewpoint of this being spam might be unique. In fact, this thread is the only place I heard any negatives at all.
I can only imagine how you would have reacted if I had posted the entire write up instead of the dreaded off-site link. I’m sure you wouldn’t have liked that either, right? I must rmember what my momma taught me. You can please all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time,… but SkykingOH…LOL
wiseoldowl - Each time you speak I see “could be, maybe, if”. Its obvious you did not do your homework before speaking. Don’t be such a cranky old owl! Life’s to short to hate everything on site. Rather than reprint the entire writeup here (and get SkykingOH all excited again and accusing me of spaming), how about you grab your mouse and click on the link and go read up on the module. (You may have heard, I have very heavily spammed all forums, you should have no trouble finding a link. LOL) Having actual facts at your disposal on which to base your opinions can be a great advantage. You did a great job of describing all the problems with the old code; You were apparently hurt by it as a young man. Release your burden, oldowl - its ok to love again. It doesn’t always end in pain! One of the things that surprises me - you are a participant in the forum this module was published in. It seems you almost had to go out of your way remain ignorant of any actual facts about the module, before telling folks how it couldn’t be any good. Tsk tsk tsk on you. Didn’t your parents ever tell you when you have nothing factual to add to a conversation - its perfectly OK to STAY SILENT? And for heavens sake - do a little reading before you start shooting off your - opinions.
Lastly - there is no one single “author” of the Wake Up Calls function. Its scripts, like so many others, have existed in the public domain for many years. During that time, many authors have have their hands in the code. I received almost-working copies of the scripts from a forum member in the trixbox forum, which over time, working with still others to correct problems which had crept into the code over the years, we turned it into the Hotel Wake Up Calls Module. All the original author credits that were in the scripts when I got them are still there, right where they started. In the announcement for the module, three other folks who contributed to the efforts on the module were cited, and thanked profusely for their help.
It seems to me, this is the very nature of open source software. A group effort - that results in a functional system to achieve the desired goals. It seems to me, this is exactly what occurred in this case - I just happened to be the one to bring the strings together and publish it as a module.
So - with everyone’s blessing - I would like to stop talking about where the module is hosted, and what the old versions of the code did to hurt you years ago.
It couldn’t matter less where the module is hosted - it changes nothing about its function install or configuration. The old versions of this code made me mad too - I hated the dumb math questions for example - but that was THEN, this is NOW. And things have changed for the better.
So - I suggest we move this thread to more rewarding conversations like questions about how to use it, or suggestions for improvement - and leave behind the background noise of where it’s hosted and how ancient versions of it used to perform.
Whaddaya say?
Well I’ll agree with you on one point. The third party modules section has many modules that no longer work or only work for a specific version.
95% of them did work when they were released for a given version of FreePBX. But as many do, they didn’t or don’t document what version it was written for (saying the current version is a useless statement as current changes over time). It is important to state the specific version numbers it was written and tested on. Even more important, when a new version comes out the author should update the documentation or the module to work with the new version that way others will know if it works and get the correct version.
Now when that does not happen who’s fault would that be? FreePBX development team who didn’t write them, test them or approve them or the developer who wrote it, offered it and then ran away? You know the answer the developer.
The only real way to get it cleaned up is to post good, working versions with documentation in the third party modules section. If you sit on the sidelines and wait for those other authors to first to get up and clean up the old code they posted we’ll all be old and gray or possibly dead.
It is possible to remove things posted there, at the same time many of us can update the documentation around them if somebody can provide the details. I for one don’t use any of the modules but I am willing to get things updated, organized and corrected. For that to happen people need to say something about a specific module so that it can be addressed. For those modules that only work with real old versions we can easily re-organize the section and make it clearer, but people need to help for it to happen.
I’m sorry for not having thanked you all earlier, but sometimes the not so good things in life interfere with work.
I just wanted you all to know I appreciate everyone weighing in, and as tshif said in between all the debating policy/practice which I’m only beginning to understand, it does appear to work fine. I’m a newbie, but even though there seemed to be a lot of effort from all of you on something not everyone can benefit from, I suspect anyone that was staying tuned or reads the posts can also benefit from the app. I was excited to learn a bit having a few of the veterans weighing in, and really always appreciate the support (and also have contributed a bit to freepbx/piaf (and a consultant or 2 that left me to “hurry up and figure it out”, but I really do appreciate all the effort (and patience) I have always receive on the freepbx forum.
As mentioned, I have only tested it on a very limited scale, but I will be trying it on a more regular basis for wake up calls and meeting reminders. I well let you all know if it “crashes my system” before I find some other newbie-worthy way to do that myself…
Hmm,
after seeing how upset tshif was in a completely un-related thread, I thought I might go back and see what got him so upset, which made me come upon this thread. I will make a couple of comments related to his above post:
You make a valid point and we would love to have help doing such. If you have used modules and find they break things they can be addressed in multiple ways. It it is easy to put a <version>2.2.0 lt</version> tag in a module which will keep it from loading on anything starting with 2.2, as an example.
The fact is, we will give anyone who wants to help and do some coding access to the contributed repository. The project is a community effort and it is through the involvement of the community that conditions improve and evolve. If everyone waits, nothing will ever happen.
It will matter very much going forward. FreePBX will be including an Extended Repository within the GUI to begin to give access to many of the know quality third part modules. They will have to be within the contributed_module svn tree in order for us to publish them. That does not mean we will publish everything there since, as you pointed out, there are modules that have issues. But it will be a great way to get them very easily exposed to all users of FreePBX.
I applaud your interest in my concerns - but they aren’t worth nearly the attention they are getting. Truly. It’s not a discussion I particularly want to continue to have. I was at the time here to support a user question about the module, nothing more.
I do not easily lay-down when presented with accusations and groundless negativity however, and so my response was rich and full to these. The goal was to redirect a bunch of needlessly negative, off topic bruhaha focusing on the topic of “where the module is hosted” back to the topic at hand - supporting the modules users.
I respectfully maintain my position. WHERE the module is hosted is of absolutely no importance.
You said:
It will matter very much going forward. FreePBX will be including an Extended Repository within the GUI to begin to give access to many of the know quality third part modules. They will have to be within the contributed_module svn tree in order for us to publish them. That does not mean we will publish everything there since, as you pointed out, there are modules that have issues. But it will be a great way to get them very easily exposed to all users of FreePBX.
That’s a great step to take - nice job. But it only matters if the publisher cares to have it listed in the third party modules repository for initial download.
There is an even more important step to take if your quite serious about making it easier for users to upgrade their already installed modules.
That is “let it happen”. Today, the module already knows where its hosted (if built correctly) by the location tags. Its exactly the data element that the module SHOULD be using to check for upgrades to an already installed module. It’s natural and logical. But, it doesn’t seem to work.
That location seems to be locked into your svn. It wont take any other location. (And from what you say, 2.6 is not going to be any different. “They will have to be within the contributed_module svn tree in order for us to publish them.”)
What benefit is it to take the step of letting files from your own, unmanaged, SVN, be able to update themselves, but block the module from finding its upgrade source elsewhere on the net? Since you don’t maintain third party modules, you bear no responsibility for them once installed (See, I do read what you write. ), why prevent this?
If the user has already decided to install a third party module (gasp) that’s not from your third party SVN, why prevent it from updating itself?
In any event, thanks for dredging up this old bean and responding now. I’ve said it before loud and long, Ill say it again. I do not have to agree with every tiny step the FreePBX team makes in order to be a staunch supporter of the project - which I am.
I do not ever wish to participate in any discussions which bring personality, flaming, and other general stupidity into the mix. However, if I am dragged into a conversation by others who relentlessly demand a conversation about same - I will be very plain, and straightforward in stating my opinion - as I hope I have done here.
I’m looking forward to 2.6!
tshif,
you say “I do not ever wish to participate in any discussions which bring personality, flaming, and other general stupidity into the mix. However…”
However, you seemed to be quick to attack the project as well as me personally in the other referenced thread. And that was in a situation where you and I were not even talking, I happened to be answering some one else questions…However, on to the subject of your question
As far as your question on modules updating themselves from their source, I’ll answer that both technically as well as our current thinking from a ‘policy’ perspective.
From the ‘policy’ perspective, they will have to be in the FreePBX SVN repository. Currently that is contributed_modules though we may consider further partitioning the repository to be ‘contributed_modules’ and ‘extended_repository.’ The latter to match those modules we choose to publish through the GUI.
The reason for the distinction may be both to make it easier for the tools that publish them, and to for reasons related to what you brought up, so people can understand a level of quality they may expect when browsing svn relative to which location they are located. In any event, this has not been hashed out yet.
The other reason to have them in our SVN is that anything you download from FreePBX reflects in the overall reputation of the project, for good or bad. Even modules like yours which are not housed here still have that effect (the good or bad, I’m not judging, I haven’t used it) but to a slightly lesser extent since you can point to someone and make them aware that they don’t come from our repository. Having them in our repository results in more developers both ‘core’ and others who have access to be available to help maintain and improve upon them. Several of the core developers, and others with contributed access have helped maintain quite a few of the modules there. Having the modules housed elsewhere makes the task much more difficult, does not allow easy tracking of issues through trac and the abilities there are to cross link code changes, etc. I don’t think I need to go on…
As far as the technical reason, the way the Module Admin repository works is really quite simple. All the module.xml files for all modules in a repository are concatenated together. All the location tags are relative to the mirror site, and there are a whole set of tools that are tied directly to this all being within the same svn repository that automatically generates the xml that defines the repository, does a sanity cross check that the tar ball are present and that the referenced md5sums pass integrity checks so there are no errors when trying to update modules. And - during the first phase of the publish process, there are even sanity checks done when the modules are packaged that keep things like php syntax errors from letting a module get packaged.
So … given that we have the repository partitioned in such a way that we can give access to anyone who wants to contribute (kind of the opposite of elitism) while still maintaining stronger control on the core parts of the repository, and given the above mentioned processes for control and maintenance of the repository, there is really no good reason why we would not limit the modules accessible from the gui to be housed in the FreePBX svn repository, as no one is excluded from participating.
It also has the added benefit that all activity in our repository is very visible whether through the timeline or CIA bot in IRC. It has led on more than one occasion for us to spot active developers who might be interested in getting wider access to SVN and helping more on the project across the board. If they were spread all over the place, we would have no way to evaluate ‘how well they play with everyone else’ which is an important aspect of any community project. That is why there are about 2 dozen developers who have SVN access at some level in the project.
Excellent response. Nice Job!
There can never be to much quality information - that’s what I say.
Well, we are talking now - and I don’t seem to be “attacking”. A reasonable conclusion might be that its something specific to the circumstances in the other thread. By the way, you cut my quote off at the most interesting part which went something like - However, if I am dragged into a conversation by others who relentlessly demand a conversation about same - I will be very plain, and straightforward in stating my opinion.
In your answer, I’m not sure you mentioned the case of an already existing and installed third party module - and why it isn’t allowed to update itself from wherever it lives - which was more or less my point.
Obviously the references to the locations do not HAVE to be “relative to the mirror site”. Thats a design decision. Your prerogative of course - however I’m quite sure you could figure out a way to accomplish all the exciting things you mentioned (which are designed to help in policy and technical assurances, etc, for modules hosted in your SVN), and still let third party modules that are already installed update themselves from wherever they may live.
I understand your concern that a rouge module could look like a FreePBX problem. But, if that’s the real motivating factor, then you would not have provided the ability to upload third party modules at all.
An easy example (hypothetical only, we don’t sell modules) : A Programmer develops a module which he SELLS to his vertical market. This code is not public, and obviously doesn’t belong in any public repository. That module needs to be updated as the conditions of its operation changes. Why not allow it? If you designed the current “relative link” update requirement, then redesign it.
It doesn’t seem necessary to have this odd exception. You allow the modules to be uploaded, but do not allow them to update themselves.
And - when you don’t change this unfortunate and unnecessary limitation, I’ll still end by saying - Good Luck with 2.6 - I’m looking forward to it!
-Tony
Edit: I almost forgot - with regard to “we would have no way to evaluate ‘how well they play with everyone else’ which is an important aspect of any community project.” Hahaha. Well, I’m pretty sure I know where I fall in that ranking in the eyes of the project team. That’s a shame, cause I’m really a pussy cat under normal circumstances. But that does bring up another point. Some people, like me, just aren’t interested in such an evaluation because we don’t need or want access to your SVN, or to interact with your team on a more direct level. Its certainly not meant as an insult - it just so happens.
You say no one is excluded - that’s truly laudable. But is membership required to contribute? Do I have to be a card carrying FreePBX approved personality type in order to contribute? You won’t want me, and I don’t want “in”, so happily and without prejudice we all agree.
But, as a penalty for refusing membership, my modules can’t update themselves from the outside world. This makes me sad. 
Tony,
As far as allowing anyone access to the contributed modules area as well as to the edit the website, it is very much the case. There have been a few individuals who have been very vocal in the past against the project or me in particular who I didn’t flinch to give access to when it was clear that they desired it.
I have seen this as a ‘turning point’ with some, because some where their heads had been filled with claims of the project being closed to the point that they just made assumptions and never bothered to find out for themselves, and they quickly found out that maybe the perception was not correct.
Concerning the technical discussion of a module updating itself, there is nothing that would keep you from having a module update itself if you wanted to code that into the module. And as far as the module admin application using a relative address, that is how it has been designed since it’s inception though you are correct it could change.
However, as far as all of the factors that come into play if we were going to have a distributed environment, from the generation of the master module xml file collecting that from a random set of locations (and re-writing the tools that did such), to issues after choosing modules to download and then the application hanging half way through because some site is down, to some remote site re-generating a tarball with un-matching md5sums, etc… And then the lack of ability to respond quickly to important issues because of lack of proper access to some module, … There is just no justification to to invest the time and produce the negative user experiences that would result when it is so simple to host all of the source code in one location.
The freepbx.org server gets hit quite hard, given the hundreds of thousands of systems that are out there depending on it. It’s why the project leaders of this team, me inclusive, have invested in a dedicated powerful server (that does not come cheap) in order to make sure that the access is there and the user experience is dependable. We don’t want shared hosting servers balking in the middle of a download because their quotas are being exceeded.
Again - if you want to write something that updates your own module, there is nothing stopping anyone from doing that.
As far as your comment “Well, I’m pretty sure I know where I fall in that ranking in the eyes of the project team…” That’s an interesting conclusion. I find that the “team” (more of a community) is generally receptive of others who share a similar passion. Honestly, I wouldn’t be spending my time having this discussion or providing the answers and information that I have if that was the case. You may want to try some productive involvement with some of the others. And if you had in the past, and some how felt ‘slighted’ then maybe give it another try. Do keep in mind everyone is very busy and at times may not have the time that we would sometimes like.
Now that was a ground up honest set of answers anyone would respect - I sure do appreciate it.
Its a shame the current architecture wont allow third party - non FreePBX hosted modules to update from where they live. But - even if it did, the thought of “choosing modules to download and then the application hanging half way through because some site is down” during a FreePBX upgrade period especially is blood curdling to consider.
Again - if you want to write something that updates your own module, there is nothing stopping anyone from doing that.
This is the conclusion I had come to as well - and we are in the process of working on that very thing right now. I’m actually quite happy to learn that you aren’t going to consider that behavior in a module to be “Blasphemous” or anti FreePBX. Its certainly not - its a response to a need that you won’t, or what is now better understood as CANT really supply safely.
I certainly hope you feel less personally attacked. I think if you were to encounter a vast majority if whatever I have contributed to forums over time, you would find a staggering preponderance of upbeat references about FreePBX. One of my favorite phrases, is that “FreePBX is arguably the most evolved and complete” solution for PBX management - period. I stand by that.
(grin)
I also have a real genuine desire not to interrupt threads handling support issues with off topic interludes -
So - would anyone like to talk about the Hotel Wake Up Call module, or is anyone having any support issues with it that I can help with?
(/grin)
- Tony
Not that it matters, but after reading the recent posts here it occurs to me to ask - how does Firefox handle their module (or as they call them, extension or add-on) updates? What I mean is this: Firefox has their extension site and you can obtain hundreds of Firefox extensions there, and what’s similar is that they have the ones that are approved and then others that are listed as “experimental”, which I think is the term they use (been a while since I’ve been there). But I also know that in some cases an extension author chooses, for whatever reason, to host a module on his own web site (or some other collection of Firefox modules) rather than in the “official” repository. So what I’m wondering is, if you download a Firefox extension from a third-party web site, will it still be able to check for updates and update itself?
I honestly don’t know the answer to that offhand, and I only bring it up because I think sometimes it might be good to look at how other projects handle similar issues as a sort of “reality check” - not that FreePBX necessarily has to follow in the footsteps of Firefox, but it’s just a data point.
Sitting out here in userland, as it were, I think it would be great if all the third-party FreePBX modules could be available in one central location. But I also understand that realistically, it’s probably never going to happen. And ironically, perhaps one of the reasons for that is that people generally don’t like having others sit in judgment of their work, particularly when they are doing something for free. I think that’s one reason blogging has become so popular on the Internet, along with various other information channels that allow people to post whatever they want to write directly, without some editor going through it and picking it apart first. When you have written something that you think is useful, whether text or code, there is some desire to see it take wings and fly out into the world, not sit on someone’s desk (metaphorically speaking) and wait for a stamp of approval.
I think it’s a somewhat natural tendency of every human being to think that your stuff is a bit better than anyone else’s (assuming you are reasonably proficient at what you do) and in the case of a project like this, to the extent that someone is made to feel as though they or their code must pass some sort of vetting process before being allowed into a repository, there will be those who choose not to want to go through that process, even if their code would ultimately meet approval.
From my perspective as a user, I’d rather be able to pick up a module and try it and see if it breaks anything than wait for it to be approved (and don’t infer anything by that statement, I really don’t know how much of an “approval” process currently exists - a lot of what I’m talking about here is perception, which may or may not coincide with reality). But then again, I’m in a situation where if I break something, I’m not going to have a boss and 200 users screaming at me that the phones don’t work!
All the same, I do think there are some festering issues in the FreePBX community that are not being addressed. My particular pet peeve is the #freepbx IRC channel, which many users would perceive as somehow representing the FreePBX project, yet you have a guy over there who in my opinion shouldn’t even be allowed on the channel, yet not only does he have ops, but he also controls the only 'bot (and Phillipe, you may have noticed that when you asked him if YOU had access to the 'bot, he somehow never got around to replying!). Meanwhile, every time I can hold my nose long enough to go read that channel, I see him banning someone or threatening to ban someone, or going off on some other user as if it were HIS damn channel.
If you are the slightest bit worried about “the overall reputation of the project”, your biggest worry probably should not be that someone might contribute some code to the third-party repository that’s not as “clean” as you might want it, because users understand (or at least they should) that there’s a reason things are in the third-party repository and not in the core distribution. You should be more concerned the very public face that’s being shown in your (un)official support channel by a guy who in no way should be allowed to have ops in ANY IRC channel, judging by his past performance.
And since I’m giving free advice tonight, I’ll also say to Tony that you need to cool down just a bit and not assume everyone is your enemy. I just now saw how you went off on me in your March 2nd post; you’re probably lucky I missed it back then. But I will just say, at least in my case, please do not ever assume what I have read or not read, or how much I remember of what I may have read. When I made those comments I obviously had no idea the wakeup calls module had been updated - and bear in mind that with my memory, and the volume of stuff I read, it’s entirely possible I could have seen a post about it a week before and then forgotten about it. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sent a link to someone about some story, and a week later they start to discuss it with me and I have no clue what they are talking about until they fill in some details. At my age it’s simply impossible to remember everything I’ve read, even in recent days. Anyway, you of all people should not be telling anyone to keep silent. What are forums for, if not sharing information and opinions?
Obviously all the above is just my opinion, and I’m sorry if anyone is offended, but at least I’m trying to be an equal opportunity offender tonight.