First trixbox does a sellout to Fonality and now FreePBX sells out to some unknown company called Atengo. Why cant FREE mean FREE? If Rob, Phillipe, and Greg wanted a commercial product why make one instead of pretending to create an open source product just to get “corporate sponsorship” like Andrew Gillis did and now look at whats happened over there!!
What ever happened to the spirit of open source? Why does everyone have to be lieing hypocrits these days and bow down to “corporate sponsorship”? With trixbox devoured by money grubbing pigs and now FreePBX bowing under the same pressure since the wonders of 2.3 included nothing but stealing the admin screen from trixbox, making the interface clunkier and more painful to use, not fixing important bugs, and slapping their new corporate logo everywhere, what did we get out of the all the new stuff?
You guys talked up a better line about staying true to OSS which makes it even harder to swallow than the trixbox sellouts. At least we see the direction FreePBX is going, more fluff, more AJAX, more glitzy effects, and no bug fixes that MANY people need. How long with trixbox be able to exist if FreePBX continues on this downward spiral? FreePBX croaking (pun intended) will take down the whole of the market segment for trixbox and FreePBX and will let AsteriskNow take over.
you should consider doing a little homework before making such claims. Who is Atengo? We are Atengo - as in several of the Developers who have been both publicly and silently giving thousands of hours to the development and evolution of FreePBX. There is no sellout and there is no parallel to Fonality.
It appears you haven’t looked very closely at what we have done, nor have you ever run into issues taking hours/days to resolve what the new dashboard brings to attention instantly. The System Status screen shares some core parts of code that originally came from phpsysinfo (and have been significantly modified by us). Beyond that - there really is not much more in common.
Beyond the very visible changes (the dashboard and the new styling) there are all sorts of new capabilities in the system. But yes, it does take using the new system and exploring it to see what they all are (in addition to the Changelog summary).
interesting comment, we took every bug on the system (which means dozens of bugs from 2.2. and prior), move them into the scope of 2.3 and then systematically fixed them where they could be addressed. Only a few got pushed off beyond 2.3 because they represent core architectural changes that are required and were out of scope for 2.3. At last count, that was over 250 bugs.
Beyond this reply, I won’t dignify any further comments. You are clearly completely unaware of the reality of the situation.
Philippe Lindheimer - FreePBX Project Lead
http//freepbx.org - IRC #freepbx
adding three screens to do module updates now was just lame versus fixing something that is hurting numerous companies like paging, which is NOT a core architecture change, its fairly minor dialplan change to just make it work versus some lofty goal of rewriting it which is now pushed off into who knows when land because its obviously cooler to add stupid/useless ajax than to fix signifigant issues.
So your major new 2.3 version besides the admin screen and being able to update the core is now a festering pile of bad AJAX code, even worse than 2.2 was. Its now harder to use, slower, and did not add anything at all useful to the experience, it only made it worse. The reality is that you do not listen to what your users want or need, only what you feel you want to work on. This is why boring things like bug fixes are not happening and “fun” things like wasting time on horrible ajax code are getting put in.
You wont dignify an answer because you cant take someone telling you bluntly what people have been trying to be subtle about telling you for a while. We need SOLID, RELIABLE systems, not broken systems with junky ajax interfaces and you are not delivering. You dont have to listen in the channels much right now to hear the rumblings of a fork because you do not want to address the needs of the businesses that are using your product.
freeguy,
Your tone is insulting. If you wanted your opinion to be productively taken you ought to know better.
Overall, the user interface in my opinion has been improved. It needs work in places and the team knows that but overall I am very happy with it. They use the interface too. I've implemented paging just fine BTW, what is your problem? If it's a change you need that seems simple and they haven't implemented it yet then do the *simple change* yourself. The code is open.
Create a bug report or feature request to describe what you need and what your fix is. Chances are that if your fix hasn't been implemented then there is probably something fundamentally wrong with the architecture that'll need to be addressed so one fix doesn't break something else. Did you ever consider that?
As to your comment "Why cant FREE mean FREE?" The developers want and fully intend to keep FreePBX not only free but open.
This isn't just lip service either. All the code is there for everyone to see in all it glory and blemishes. http://www.freepbx.org/trac/browser You don't find the other systems you mentioned doing that do you. NO you don't, not in this way, nor with such a readily accessible interface.
You speak of forking... whatever. Why, what would be their motivation and who would want to? We'd probably sooner find someone start a project from scratch rather than create a fork and it'd take 1000's of hours of effort to come up with a system as robust as FreePBX is currently.
Your stealing the admin screen BS pisses me off too... FreePBX already had a status screen this is just a natural progression of the product. Trixbox thought it needed improvements too, that's why they made their own. What do you think the FreePBX team stole? A useful concept taken to the next step which everyone clearly wanted? Oh wait, maybe that's one of the things that you say they supposedly weren't listening too. No wait, maybe it's too useful for you it uses AJAX to update itself on the fly... sweet eh!
Who knows, you are a troll... change your tone or go back to the CLI for all I care. If you want any further responses from me your tone will have to me moderated quite a bit. Got a problem past that feel free to give me a call directly, you know how to get a hold of me.
You obviously havent read the bug reports on paging have you? If someone is on the phone and you page them, it drops the call into hold. How professional is that?
Why would someone fork? Because what we are getting is clunky, poorly written AJAX interfaces versus getting solid features and very old important bugs fixed. I fail to see why the FreePBX team doesn’t hold stability and reliability above everything else. A phone system is almost always the most mission critical component of any phone system and each version of FreePBX introduces a worse interface and no greater PBX functionality.
Just “change the code”? Do you actually listen to people in your own IRC channel? People have posted coded, they have contributed modules, but because “the powers that be” dont deem them relevant, they dont get added. How long has the voicemail groups module been sitting in there and never added when garbage like the customerdb which doesnt do any good at all is in there? How about feature requests that go back ages? bulk extension creation, call screening, phone provisioning, BSD support, etc etc. How many people were screaming “oh please make it painfully obnoxious to update modules by having to use multiple screens and cool pop up windows”? Funny, I couldn’t find one in the archive and yet the others have been there for a long long time.
After watching for a long time how this group treats its community, i couldnt hold out any longer. Perhaps a bit rash, but I am finally saying what others are saying behind your backs. We dont want funky interfaces that dont work on all browsers, we want features that clients expect without having to customize dialplans to make basic functions like paging work properly.
Nobody else does it? trixbox CE? Elastix? easyvoxbox?
Why can’t anyone actually address the issues I brought up?
Addition of clunky user interface
Bugs not being fixed
Contributed code not being used
Feature requests not being addressed
You think I dont have a reason to be upset and this is why, everyone beats around the bush and tries to change the subject and will never address the shortcomings.
Freeguy, from my view (and experience over the last year) as an independent user, you are talking rubbish.
FreePBX works and works well. It’s improved tremendously over the year or so I’ve been using it.
It’s software - there will always be features that people have thought of or suggested that is does not (yet) support, and most likely a few bugs too.
Asterisk itself is an ongoing project and freepbx also has to change to retain it’s existing functions as asterisk changes, as a priority over new features.
I’ve reported bugs with the 2.3 betas and they have been fixed within days, with great help and feedback from the FreePBX guys.
Within the last couple of weeks I’ve also seen a user-contributed module appear on the forum, with a download link. It’s been used, bugs reported & fixed over several releases - all within a matter of days and the end result is a very useful additional feature for many people.
Anybody with a module to contribute could do just the same - if it’s worth using it will get used, whether it’s in the main package or not.
rjenkinsgb,
a) Bugs from well over 6 months ago are not fixed (see bug report)
b) Feature requests going back over a year are not implemented (see feature requests)
c) User contributed modules going back 9 months are not available (voicemail groups being one)
You have not addressed any of the points I have made. You are speaking emotionally and not logically. Things are NOT getting done. Please refer to my posts for specific examples.
“if its worth using, it will get used” - but who decides the value? voicemail groups is a highly requested feature but mostly because they dont like the guy who submitted it, its not being released.
“it works” - yeah it works, but its buggier now than it was a year ago. As an integrator working with FreePBX from the AMP days, very little has improved from a client perspective. So while I appreciate your comments, the FreePBX developers have consistently refused to answer DIRECT questions and it is getting very frustrating.
Paging issues, well I guess someone must have fixed it because, it works just fine at three or four places which use it.
Are you sure you are not speaking of Trixbox having paging issues???
If you are not running Freepbx on centos installed from source, then take you trash talk to wherever you got the install from.
just how “code” have you supplied??
How much money have you given to get the things YOU want.
Why would you think you can speak for me or the 1000’s of others out there??
If you do not like do not use it, if you think you can do better then do it, no one is stopping you…
Bugs from well over 6 months ago are not fixed <<<<<<<<<<<<<
“bugs” can not be fixed they must be written out of code…you are talking patch’s which is what I do not want;
I want a fix… if I must wait then; I must wait.
Feature requests going back over a year are not implemented<<<<<<<<
So what??? Got one you want put in cough up the money.
voicemail groups is a highly requested feature <<<<<<<
By who??? I have never had a single person
ask me for this.
User contributed modules going back 9 months are not available <<<<<<<<<<
Once more… so what ??? Not everything someone wants to do is a good idea.
http://freepbx.org/trac/ticket/1926
Paging is broken, they have known about this for much longer than this ticket has been there, this ticket shows they know it and refuse to fix it.
“bugs” can not be fixed they must be written out of code - huh? You FIX bugs by written code that isnt broken. Obviously your meds arent working tonight. If you dont “fix bugs” then how come each version has “bug fixes”?
I have asked time and time again for quotes on specific features and nobody will ever cough up a quote. Would be happy to pay for numerous items but they act like they dont want anyone’s money.
voicemail groups was written over 7 months ago, why isnt it available yet?
Again, you are being emotional and not addressing the core problems that this project is having that they refuse to comment on.
Bubba, I respect you but the developers need to be accountable and respond to their problems. They dont need you to defend them with the same excuses they have been using for months.
I’ve just looked at that ticket re. paging; it’s been looked at several times over the last few months.
It also says the existing system has fundamental flaws and needs an overhaul, which is very different to ‘refusing’ to fix it.
Asterisk 1.2 has been announced end-of-life. The number one priority from my (user) point of view was getting FreePBX updated to be compatible with Asterisk 1.4, and this has now been done.
What page in the forum has the details and link of that Voicemail Groups module?
The developers are not your (or my etc.) employees therefore do not need to be accountable to anyone.
FreePBX is FREE and in this rare case you get far more than you pay for.
All forums experience trolls and flaming, it’s just good to see that it happens so little here. They come on shouting their opinions and waving their flags, talking trash. The community tries to reason with them, dispute some unfounded claims and sooth the storm to restore some order.
We are educated people who believe we shouldnt drop to the level of those casting the insults.
The thing is, I’ve dealt with trolls before and nothing intelligent we can say will have any effect because the troll is not prepared to listen. So it’s generally simpler all round to issue the slap and follow with the IP ban.
So in short then,
freeguy, you are a prick, piss off.
“We are educated people who believe we shouldnt drop to the level of those casting the insults.” In the context of your post this statement is laughable. You may not like the tone of the OP. However a closer look at the definition of a troll might bring it closer to home than you realize.
Now back to the topic. First, the attempt by p_lindheimer to answer the issues raised is commendable. I have to admit that the sudden appearance of a previously unknown (to me) corporation claiming trademark ownership of the FreePBX name and other related marks raised a flag. Especially in the light that nowhere that I frequent was any prior discussion of the issue and how this heretofore unheard of group came to own this property. A quick look at the background led me to a website offering a $1000 turnkey PBX system with an apparent integrated server architecture. These are the people that out of the night claim to own the associated trademarks. Need I say the parallels to the afore mentioned other project grab were alarming.
These concerns are elevated in my mind because to display the USPTO registration mark (circled-R) the USPTO must have actually completed the full process and registered the name or mark. There must have been claimed or demonstrated exclusive ownership and use of the name or mark in commerce. That declares that the USPTO has previously followed all protocol including publication for opposition and ultimately issued the registration. To show these marks otherwise would be unauthorized and illegal.
The USPTO says:
What is “use in commerce”?
For the purpose of obtaining federal registration, “commerce” means all commerce that the U.S. Congress may lawfully regulate; for example, interstate commerce or commerce between the U.S. and another country. “Use in commerce” must be a bona fide use of the mark in the ordinary course of trade, and not use simply made to reserve rights in the mark. Generally, acceptable use is as follows:
For goods: the mark must appear on the goods, the container for the goods, or displays associated with the goods, and the goods must be sold or transported in commerce.
For services: the mark must be used or displayed in the sale or advertising of the services, and the services must be rendered in commerce.
end of quote…
My concern was who are these people that have made these claims to the US Patents and Trademark Office and how did they achieve ownership of these formerly public names and marks? For that matter how were these names and marks demonstrated to have prior use in commerce.
I don’t want to own anything and have no personal grudge. Neither do I claim to have any legal acumen. I just find the process a bit occult.
Hopefully those who appear to flame me will in the process execute good community citizenship and add some light with the fire.
You may be interested to know that Linksys firmware 5.1.15a|SC has the following change for paging:
On incoming page, do not automatically put the current calls
on hold. Instead mix the incoming audio with that of the
currently active calls; When user tries to put an incoming
page call on hold, the phone will end the call instead; Play
the brief PAGE Tone at the beginning of an incoming page
I don’t know if this is of significance to your issue - not sure what hardware you’re using.
I have been watching closely and have been slightly involved with both FreePBX and trixbox for a while now and it all boils down to simple logic (for me.)
Considering that all other products mentioned in this thread use FreePBX as the basis of their Asterisk GUI. And there is a commercial portion or intent with each one as well. Digium, whom without which we wouldn’t be having this conversation, is also seeking greater monetization.
FreePBX, logically needs to follow suit. And as such, not announce every detail sooner then need be. They are going to be directly competing with Digium, Fonality, Cisco, Avaya, etc… from the very start.
This is a different bunch of guys. I know their intent and find it honorable. Don’t believe me? Let’s revisit in a year and see who is right.
Robert Keller
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
Sun Tzu
Those who have a habbit of complaining, they’ll complain even if they have an Avaya or Nortel installed. They don’t know how technology works and most of them don’t bother even trying to understand it before start whining. These whiners should know that it is a free software and its developers are not sitting here to serve these whiners and deal with their non sense. You don’t like it, go somewhere else and BUY what satisfies you, just don’t insult its developers here.
FreePBX is a free software, which we all should keep in mind. A lot of people have contributed to bring where it stands today. It works great and a lot of people are happily using the same FreePBX in production systems which other people like freeguy can’t stop complaining about. Its not the problem with FreePBX, its the problem with these whiners, because it is their habit to complain about everything which they can’t understand and can’t spend time to understand. Most of them even didn’t know a few days ago how to properly pronounce Linux.
I’ve been using it since A@H 0.9, and I’d installed production systems on it. True that there were bugs then and I had to fix many of them before bringing it in production. But today, this is not the case. FreePBX works perfectly fine without any problems right from the install and works very reliably. You just install it, set it up using some common sense and It will NOT give any problems. If someone has problem because of how trixbox updates and breaks it, contact trixbox and complain to them, don’t discourage FreePBX contributors here. Or donate some money to the developers and request them to deal with your specific issues on a priority.
And if you still have problems, go and buy one form 3Com, Avaya, Nortel or maybe PBXtra. Once you’ll pay thousands of dollars for PBX plus thousands more for support, then you’ll realize how good FreePBX was. Why don’t you donate same money here if you really want to fix your problems faster.