[Amportal-devel] [Maybe OT] FreePBX licenseing model

FreePBX Development
41

Hi All,
 
  This may be a little OT, but I couldn’t find information on the above. I was trying to understand how
the FreePBX license works, and the only thing I managed to gather is that its CORE is a GPL core,
while, other portions - lack the modules appear to be missing a license indication.
 
  Now, my question is this, suppose that one would write a new module for FreePBX - can that module
be a non-GPL module? lets say that the module will activate some form of web loadable module, or
some form of binary compiled module - the question is: is that legal?
 
  As I look at it, FreePBX is a wonderfull tool, and many integrators around the world are using it. However,
I’ve also noticed that many integrators tend to change it and re-sell that changed version. I agree that a
change to the core must fall under the realm of the GPL, however, an add-on module should be able to
exist outside of the GPL. I know that some would say: “Well, why not make FreePBX LGPL?”, so I would
say: "FreePBX is a full user product, not a library. The main usage of LGPL is meant for work with libraries
or developer kits to enable the creation of new user products, without the requirement of releasing your
product into the open-source, while still retaining the original license of the library."
 
  I would love to get an answer to the above, and opinions.
 
Regards,
  Nir S

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42

-----Original Message-----
From: Nir Simionovich [mailto:[email protected]]
I guess that the main question here is: is my client now in violation
of the GPL code in doing so?

He’s only in violation of the GPL if:

1: He distributes it to someone else
and
2: doesn’t give the source to them (being that it’s PHP et all, will be hard)
and
3: Doesn’t tell the person downstream that it’s GPL.

The GPL only ‘bites’ when the code is distributed in any way.

–Rob

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43

On Sunday 10 December 2006 13:31, Nir Simionovich wrote:

[quote] Think about it this way, many companies install and integrate FreePBX
into their existing IP PBX offering, basing
it on Asterisk and FreePBX - which is wonderfull. However, customers tend
to come and request special features to
be built, making the availability of derived works which are client
proprietary almost impossible.
[/quote]Can you tell us what do you need? Maybe some workarround can be found.

I do think that this is an important issue. Not only becuase we have some
modules which are not really “free”. For example the ssh module contains java
code which there is still no free compiler for it, the gabcast code whih
contains a flash applet which needs non-free compoenents and we have no
source to.

[quote] FreePBX enables some form of proprietary development when it comes to
custom configurations, however, that
kind of development is not available for administration modules - and I
strongly believe that it should exist. Question
is, how?
[/quote]I assume we can do better. In the freepbx packages I am making for debian and
our products (shamless plug http://xorcom.com…) I added an extensions.d dir
which is included in extensions.conf, which enables you to add hooks to the
dialplan. I can open a bug report for 2.3 if this feature is needed.

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44

Well,
  Here’s a hypothetical situation that I anticipate: A large customer, lets say a carrier, approaches an Asterisk based
Software house and asks for a special feature to be added to FreePBX, only applicable to its customers. Now,
According to the GPL, if someone modifies an open-source code for internal usage and internal services rendered
To its customers on a service basis (roughly translated from lawyer lingo), then that’s ok. Now, my question is,
If that customer then outsources this development to an external integrator, is that integrator obliged to release the
Code into the GPL?

[quote][quote]I assume we can do better. In the freepbx packages I am making for debian and our products (shamless plug ?
http://xorcom.com…) I added an extensions.d dir which is included in extensions.conf, which enables you to add hooks
to the dialplan.  I can open a bug report for 2.3 if this feature is needed.
[/quote][/quote]  This is great for adding features, but some changes are sometimes a bit more tied into the core. Lets say, the
Ability to assign an account code to a call prior to it’s execution, how about adding call barring? These usually require
A bit more integration than just a dial plan - any ideas there ?
Nir S

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] ([email protected])] On Behalf Of Diego Iastrubni
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 2:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Amportal-devel] [Maybe OT] FreePBX licenseing model
On Sunday 10 December 2006 13:31, Nir Simionovich wrote:

[quote]   Think about it this way, many companies install and integrate
FreePBX into their existing IP PBX offering, basing it on Asterisk and
FreePBX - which is wonderfull. However, customers tend to come and
request special features to be built, making the availability of
derived works which are client proprietary almost impossible.
[/quote]Can you tell us what do you need? Maybe some workarround can be found.
I do think that this is an important issue. Not only becuase we have some modules which are not really “free”. For example the ssh module contains java code which there is still no free compiler for it, the gabcast code whih contains a flash applet which needs non-free compoenents and we have no source to.

[quote]   FreePBX enables some form of proprietary development when it comes
to custom configurations, however, that kind of development is not
available for administration modules - and I strongly believe that it
should exist. Question is, how?
[/quote]I assume we can do better. In the freepbx packages I am making for debian and our products (shamless plug http://xorcom.com…) I added an extensions.d dir which is included in extensions.conf, which enables you to add hooks to the dialplan.  I can open a bug report for 2.3 if this feature is needed.

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45

Hi Nir,

Excuse me for taking the stupid aproach here…

WTF do you care… ? I mean, if that customer wants feature X, give it to him.
Modify the core, and continue with your life. So stinking what… I mean,
with php and asterisk dialplan, you are giving him the source code anyway, so
you are not violating the original copyright/license of freepbx.

Yes, he can redistribute this, and gain more money… so? This is one of the
risks about GPL code. If the price is too high, then something else is wrong
here.

Sorry for the hutzpa, but hey, I said I am taking the stupid approach… :slight_smile:

On Sunday 10 December 2006 17:00, Nir Simionovich wrote:

[quote] Well,

Here’s a hypothetical situation that I anticipate: A large customer,
lets say a carrier, approaches an Asterisk based
Software house and asks for a special feature to be added to FreePBX, only
applicable to its customers. Now,
According to the GPL, if someone modifies an open-source code for internal
usage and internal services rendered
To its customers on a service basis (roughly translated from lawyer
lingo), then that’s ok. Now, my question is,
If that customer then outsources this development to an external
integrator, is that integrator obliged to release the
Code into the GPL?

I assume we can do better. In the freepbx packages I am making for

debian and our products (shamless plug ?

http://xorcom.com…) I added an extensions.d dir which is included in

extensions.conf, which enables you to add hooks

to the dialplan. I can open a bug report for 2.3 if this feature is

needed.

This is great for adding features, but some changes are sometimes a bit
more tied into the core. Lets say, the
Ability to assign an account code to a call prior to it’s execution, how
about adding call barring? These usually require
A bit more integration than just a dial plan - any ideas there ?

Nir S

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Diego
Iastrubni
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 2:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Amportal-devel] [Maybe OT] FreePBX licenseing model

On Sunday 10 December 2006 13:31, Nir Simionovich wrote:

Think about it this way, many companies install and integrate
FreePBX into their existing IP PBX offering, basing it on Asterisk and
FreePBX - which is wonderfull. However, customers tend to come and
request special features to be built, making the availability of
derived works which are client proprietary almost impossible.

Can you tell us what do you need? Maybe some workarround can be found.

I do think that this is an important issue. Not only becuase we have some
modules which are not really “free”. For example the ssh module contains
java code which there is still no free compiler for it, the gabcast code
whih contains a flash applet which needs non-free compoenents and we have
no source to.

FreePBX enables some form of proprietary development when it comes
to custom configurations, however, that kind of development is not
available for administration modules - and I strongly believe that it
should exist. Question is, how?

I assume we can do better. In the freepbx packages I am making for debian
and our products (shamless plug http://xorcom.com…) I added an
extensions.d dir which is included in extensions.conf, which enables you
to add hooks to the dialplan. I can open a bug report for 2.3 if this
feature is needed.
[/quote]-

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46

Hi Diego,

Excuse me for going all out here - BUT I DON’T USUALLY GIVE A DAMN!

The thing is that I usually like to check all the angles of issues before
I go about doing something that smells a little wrong to me. In the general,
I would agree that the fact that I let the customer have the code with the
actual modification puts me in the clear.

I guess that the main question here is: is my client now in violation
of the GPL code in doing so?

Nir S

----- Original Message -----
From: Diego Iastrubni [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 5:25:47 PM GMT+0200
Subject: Re: [Amportal-devel] [Maybe OT] FreePBX licenseing model

Hi Nir,

Excuse me for taking the stupid aproach here…

WTF do you care… ? I mean, if that customer wants feature X, give it to him.
Modify the core, and continue with your life. So stinking what… I mean,
with php and asterisk dialplan, you are giving him the source code anyway, so
you are not violating the original copyright/license of freepbx.

Yes, he can redistribute this, and gain more money… so? This is one of the
risks about GPL code. If the price is too high, then something else is wrong
here.

Sorry for the hutzpa, but hey, I said I am taking the stupid approach… :slight_smile:

On Sunday 10 December 2006 17:00, Nir Simionovich wrote:

[quote] Well,

Here’s a hypothetical situation that I anticipate: A large customer,
lets say a carrier, approaches an Asterisk based
Software house and asks for a special feature to be added to FreePBX, only
applicable to its customers. Now,
According to the GPL, if someone modifies an open-source code for internal
usage and internal services rendered
To its customers on a service basis (roughly translated from lawyer
lingo), then that’s ok. Now, my question is,
If that customer then outsources this development to an external
integrator, is that integrator obliged to release the
Code into the GPL?

I assume we can do better. In the freepbx packages I am making for

debian and our products (shamless plug ?

http://xorcom.com…) I added an extensions.d dir which is included in

extensions.conf, which enables you to add hooks

to the dialplan. I can open a bug report for 2.3 if this feature is

needed.

This is great for adding features, but some changes are sometimes a bit
more tied into the core. Lets say, the
Ability to assign an account code to a call prior to it’s execution, how
about adding call barring? These usually require
A bit more integration than just a dial plan - any ideas there ?

Nir S

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Diego
Iastrubni
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 2:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Amportal-devel] [Maybe OT] FreePBX licenseing model

On Sunday 10 December 2006 13:31, Nir Simionovich wrote:

Think about it this way, many companies install and integrate
FreePBX into their existing IP PBX offering, basing it on Asterisk and
FreePBX - which is wonderfull. However, customers tend to come and
request special features to be built, making the availability of
derived works which are client proprietary almost impossible.

Can you tell us what do you need? Maybe some workarround can be found.

I do think that this is an important issue. Not only becuase we have some
modules which are not really “free”. For example the ssh module contains
java code which there is still no free compiler for it, the gabcast code
whih contains a flash applet which needs non-free compoenents and we have
no source to.

FreePBX enables some form of proprietary development when it comes
to custom configurations, however, that kind of development is not
available for administration modules - and I strongly believe that it
should exist. Question is, how?

I assume we can do better. In the freepbx packages I am making for debian
and our products (shamless plug http://xorcom.com…) I added an
extensions.d dir which is included in extensions.conf, which enables you
to add hooks to the dialplan. I can open a bug report for 2.3 if this
feature is needed.
[/quote]-

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47

Hi Rob,
 
  As a general concept, I totally agree with the ideas behind the GPL, and I still believe that the GPL is the right
way to go. On the other hand, I can’t help but notice that in some areas, the GPL derived work tends to block the
hands of developers or integrators. I surely don’t claim that GPL is wrong, I only state that in some situations
LGPL is preferred, especially when the issue of commercially available derived work is considered.
 
  Think about it this way, many companies install and integrate FreePBX into their existing IP PBX offering, basing
it on Asterisk and FreePBX - which is wonderfull. However, customers tend to come and request special features to
be built, making the availability of derived works which are client proprietary almost impossible.
 
  FreePBX enables some form of proprietary development when it comes to custom configurations, however, that
kind of development is not available for administration modules - and I strongly believe that it should exist. Question
is, how?
 
Nir S

From: Rob Thomas [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 12:06 PM
To: amportal-devel; nirs
Subject: RE: [Amportal-devel] [Maybe OT] FreePBX licenseing model

The quick answer to your question is ‘No. It’s going to have to be GPL’, and I don’t honestly see an easy way to change this. We have a couple of GPL dependancies (PEAR, MySQL, GD) that would be significantly difficult to relicence in a different format.
 
Plus, I’m a GPL Nazi, so I don’t really have any incentive to change it either 8)
 
–Rob
 
Â

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2006 6:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Amportal-devel] [Maybe OT] FreePBX licenseing model

 
Hi All,
 
  This may be a little OT, but I couldn’t find information on the above. I was trying to understand how
the FreePBX license works, and the only thing I managed to gather is that its CORE is a GPL core,
while, other portions - lack the modules appear to be missing a license indication.
 
  Now, my question is this, suppose that one would write a new module for FreePBX - can that module
be a non-GPL module? lets say that the module will activate some form of web loadable module, or
some form of binary compiled module - the question is: is that legal?
 
  As I look at it, FreePBX is a wonderfull tool, and many integrators around the world are using it. However,
I’ve also noticed that many integrators tend to change it and re-sell that changed version. I agree that a
change to the core must fall under the realm of the GPL, however, an add-on module should be able to
exist outside of the GPL. I know that some would say: “Well, why not make FreePBX LGPL?”, so I would
say: "FreePBX is a full user product, not a library. The main usage of LGPL is meant for work with libraries
or developer kits to enable the creation of new user products, without the requirement of releasing your
product into the open-source, while still retaining the original license of the library."
 
  I would love to get an answer to the above, and opinions.
 
Regards,
  Nir S

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48

The quick answer to your question is ‘No. It’s going to have to be GPL’, and I don’t honestly see an easy way to change this. We have a couple of GPL dependancies (PEAR, MySQL, GD) that would be significantly difficult to relicence in a different format.
 
Plus, I’m a GPL Nazi, so I don’t really have any incentive to change it either 8)
 
–Rob
 
Â

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2006 6:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Amportal-devel] [Maybe OT] FreePBX licenseing model

 
Hi All,
 
  This may be a little OT, but I couldn’t find information on the above. I was trying to understand how
the FreePBX license works, and the only thing I managed to gather is that its CORE is a GPL core,
while, other portions - lack the modules appear to be missing a license indication.
 
  Now, my question is this, suppose that one would write a new module for FreePBX - can that module
be a non-GPL module? lets say that the module will activate some form of web loadable module, or
some form of binary compiled module - the question is: is that legal?
 
  As I look at it, FreePBX is a wonderfull tool, and many integrators around the world are using it. However,
I’ve also noticed that many integrators tend to change it and re-sell that changed version. I agree that a
change to the core must fall under the realm of the GPL, however, an add-on module should be able to
exist outside of the GPL. I know that some would say: “Well, why not make FreePBX LGPL?”, so I would
say: "FreePBX is a full user product, not a library. The main usage of LGPL is meant for work with libraries
or developer kits to enable the creation of new user products, without the requirement of releasing your
product into the open-source, while still retaining the original license of the library."
 
  I would love to get an answer to the above, and opinions.
 
Regards,
  Nir S

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49

 Hi Diego,
  You have a point there. I’ve examined the code again, and all indications point that the version of
GPL, under which FreePBX exists, is version 2. Lets go back to the question of forking an LGPL
Branch, how can that be done? Any ideas? I have tons of space on my CVS and SVN servers, so
Going about and allocating space is easy.
Nir S
 
P.S.
  I’ll send your regards to Meni
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] ([email protected])] On Behalf Of Diego Iastrubni
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 10:29 AM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Amportal-devel] [Maybe OT] FreePBX licenseing model
Hi Nir,
I would like to start by claiming that IANAL.
As far as I understand the GPL, making non GPL freePBX modules is not an option. This is because the modules are included in source by the main core, and thus run in the same “space address” (as far as it’s possible for script languages to say such thing), I think this is like linking non GPL libraries to GPL code. In fact, the modules are derived from from the main core. Which making non GPL modules is a violation of the GPL just as binary kernel modules.
As far as relicensing the core to LGPL. I don’t mind, IMHO this is a good idea. This will help us making more friends at the embedded market. If you need my “vote”, I give you my permission to re-license the code to LGPL.
Another question is: are we using GPL2 or GPL3? I think that GPL3 is a problem, because of patented codecs in Asterisk (still not sure if applicable to us, but why take a chance). If we stick to GPL2, we should write on all code GPL2, and not “either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version” as we have today.
 - diego
PS:
Nir, say hi to Meni :slight_smile:
On Thursday 07 December 2006 10:07, Nir Simionovich wrote:

[quote] Hi All,

   This may be a little OT, but I couldn’t find information on the
above. I was trying to understand how the FreePBX license works, and
the only thing I managed to gather is that its CORE is a GPL core,
while, other portions - lack the modules appear to be missing a
license indication.

   Now, my question is this, suppose that one would write a new module
for FreePBX - can that module be a non-GPL module? lets say that the
module will activate some form of web loadable module, or some form of
binary compiled module - the question is: is that legal?

   As I look at it, FreePBX is a wonderfull tool, and many integrators
around the world are using it. However, I’ve also noticed that many
integrators tend to change it and re-sell that changed version. I
agree that a change to the core must fall under the realm of the GPL,
however, an add-on module should be able to exist outside of the GPL.
I know that some would say: “Well, why not make FreePBX LGPL?”, so I
would
say: “FreePBX is a full user product, not a library. The main usage of
LGPL is meant for work with libraries or developer kits to enable the
creation of new user products, without the requirement of releasing
your product into the open-source, while still retaining the original
license of the library.”

   I would love to get an answer to the above, and opinions.

Regards,
   Nir S
[/quote]-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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50

Hi Nir,

I would like to start by claiming that IANAL.

As far as I understand the GPL, making non GPL freePBX modules is not an
option. This is because the modules are included in source by the main core,
and thus run in the same “space address” (as far as it’s possible for script
languages to say such thing), I think this is like linking non GPL libraries
to GPL code. In fact, the modules are derived from from the main core. Which
making non GPL modules is a violation of the GPL just as binary kernel
modules.

As far as relicensing the core to LGPL. I don’t mind, IMHO this is a good
idea. This will help us making more friends at the embedded market. If you
need my “vote”, I give you my permission to re-license the code to LGPL.

Another question is: are we using GPL2 or GPL3? I think that GPL3 is a
problem, because of patented codecs in Asterisk (still not sure if applicable
to us, but why take a chance). If we stick to GPL2, we should write on all
code GPL2, and not “either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any
later version” as we have today.

  • diego

PS:
Nir, say hi to Meni :slight_smile:

On Thursday 07 December 2006 10:07, Nir Simionovich wrote:

[quote] Hi All,

This may be a little OT, but I couldn’t find information on the above. I
was trying to understand how
the FreePBX license works, and the only thing I managed to gather is that
its CORE is a GPL core,
while, other portions - lack the modules appear to be missing a license
indication.

Now, my question is this, suppose that one would write a new module for
FreePBX - can that module
be a non-GPL module? lets say that the module will activate some form of
web loadable module, or
some form of binary compiled module - the question is: is that legal?

As I look at it, FreePBX is a wonderfull tool, and many integrators
around the world are using it. However,
I’ve also noticed that many integrators tend to change it and re-sell that
changed version. I agree that a
change to the core must fall under the realm of the GPL, however, an
add-on module should be able to
exist outside of the GPL. I know that some would say: “Well, why not make
FreePBX LGPL?”, so I would
say: “FreePBX is a full user product, not a library. The main usage of
LGPL is meant for work with libraries
or developer kits to enable the creation of new user products, without the
requirement of releasing your
product into the open-source, while still retaining the original license
of the library.”

I would love to get an answer to the above, and opinions.

Regards,
Nir S
[/quote]

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51